Advertisement
Advertisement
Advertisement
-
Re: Another Discussion Starter
Sat, November 7, 2009 - 2:09 PMI guess I'm biting.
In a mean sense most of that is true. They still race flat track XR750s, though as a class it's pretty much made for them and without further research I don't really know.
It's funny because there's a rant in Horse Magazine, which I can't find, about riding a rigid that you built or had built on long runs. I think he went to Sturgis from Texas on a 450 or 500 Jap bike motor in a rigid frame. He sounds like he had fun and got a lot of shit from the Harley Dudes.
So yes they are riding a product and an image and they are a subculture of boomers on their bucket run. So what? Nostalgia is a big 'market' and each generation is going to have something similar. Though the Horse, Dice and Greasy Culture has a lot of 20s 30s & 40s yr olds participating in that particular lifestyle. I have a 72 shovelhead in a rigid frame and I'm building a 47 knucklehead that's nearly a restoration. I have a lot of friends who restore all kinds of bikes.
Some of these builders go to Bonneville for both the Speedweek and the Bubb motorcycle timing.
There's a bunch of relatively young guys (girls) riding stripped down and mini faired Sportsters and Dynas.
Finally, I don't see what's wrong with people who like to ride throwback motorcycles, gives them something to do! -
-
Re: Another Discussion Starter
Thu, November 12, 2009 - 12:03 PMbecause some of them, especially the race bikes, are quite polluting, and I can't grok why you'd want to spend money on making the air dirtier for the sake of speed or nostalgia. -
-
Re: Another Discussion Starter
Thu, November 12, 2009 - 12:25 PMCompetition is inborn to many. The pursuit of excellence in both machine and rider drives some to compete. The amount of pollution from race bikes is a very small amount when compared to the machines of commerce and war. Technological improvements are usually initially developed for race machines and later put into production vehicles. Fuel injection, turbochargers, dick brakes, and much more, all the results of racing.
-
Re: Another Discussion Starter
Thu, November 12, 2009 - 8:51 PMWell darling, race bikes aren't used that often, not like a street bike. My bike is an 86ci shovel, it's an old engine that has been rebuilt, so it's a smidge better than it was in 1972. This is a relatively rare bike, there are not that many rolling around. What I'm getting at is how the DMV and AQMD and what other agencies look at these bikes. There are a ton of organizations that race, restore and ride these things and they write their legislators.
If you want to make a difference work on saving habitat, salt marshes, fresh water marshes, coastal sage scrub, grassland, forests, desert. That's what I do. Try it you'll like it! -
-
Re: Another Discussion Starter
Thu, November 12, 2009 - 9:12 PMSorry, I didn't make sense.
Old, restored motorcycles are a small part of the motorcycle population, so being that they are of historical interest they don't require smog restrictions. They title them according to the year they were made so you have to have a title that goes with the bike.
-
-
-
-
Re: Another Discussion Starter
Thu, November 12, 2009 - 12:47 PMBruce that article was written by some one that has never ridden a modern Harley and has no idea what he is writing about.
A modern Harley Davidson is a quality machine, the most copied machine in the world. Any motorcycle that has a V-twin motor placed in the frame in the Harley Davidson tradition is nothing but a Harley copy cat. That includes Honda, Yamaha, Victory and any of the other
V-twin manufactures. They are simply attempting to cash in on Harley Davidson's look and popularity. Does Harley Davidson build "the best" motorcycle in the world? Probably not, just the most copied, most desirable, and best selling one. Harley builds their motorcycle always with an eye on their tradition and an eye on technology. How can they build a better motorcycle that continues to look like a Harley Davidson is their goal. As far as the sound goes, the modern stock Harley is fairly quite. Most motorcycle riders want their motorcycle to "sound like a Harley." This is not possible with over-head valves, multi-valve, water cooled copies, they just sound LOUD! Like a small four cylinder car without a muffler. If you have ridden a Harley Davidson you would realize that there is nothing like the feeling of that torque when you twist the throttle. You need not have the engine reved to six thousand rpm to have power available. Just twist the throttle at 2500 and feel the surge of power. We customize our bikes because their are literally tens of thousands of after market parts available to make you Harley perform and look like you want. Different bikes are built to accomplish different things and appeal to different people. No bike is best or superior, no bike able to do all things. I suggest you read the racing results for AMA and NHRA. You will find that HD wins, and wins often in certain classes and certain types of racing.
-
-
Re: Another Discussion Starter
Fri, November 13, 2009 - 11:51 AMRace bikes may not be used very often and they make comprise a relatively small percentage of the population, but when they are more than 50x as polluting (they are not subject to emissions regs), they're pretty offensive. One good-sized race at your average track would make more pollution than all the vehicles the spectators drove there. -
-
Re: Another Discussion Starter
Fri, November 13, 2009 - 8:28 PMSo much for that activity Ms Killjoy!
-
-
Re: Another Discussion Starter
Sat, November 14, 2009 - 11:48 AMSparky,
From the FAQ section:
***Q: Have you ever ridden a Harley Davidson before?
A: Yes, several. None were what I would call more than lackluster pieces of slapped together shit, even the brand new Sportster and the equally pathetic Buel Thunderbolt. The Sportster is a joke, there is no 'sport' in a 'Sportster' to be sure. Overweight examples of hyper-market driven pieces of junk. I've seen too many brand new Harleys have to be serviced by the dealership for problems that should never have made it past quality control in the first place. Leaking engines, slipping transmissions, shoddy paint jobs that flake off, and other simple mechanical problems that you would not expect of a company selling 'the greatest motorcycle in the world'. Slapped together refurbished shit is closer to the truth.
The stuff coming out of Milwaukee truly is overpriced junk. You can get better performance, better quality, and far better workmanship at about half the price if you buy import, which is a testament to the failure of Milwaukee and the ignorance of its customer base. After riding several different HD products, I completely fail to see the mystique involved in owning anything made in Milwaukee. Putting the 'made in America' stamp on anything produced by HD should be a serious treasonous crime in and of itself. The HD line just isn't that great, and truth be known, you can buy far better for far cheaper, but you can't tell people that. They want a nostalgic product, they get product stagnation, they want a powerful image, they get image without performance, they want a bad reputation but they don't want to earn it. They want to get it by paying cash or credit.
With Harley Davidson today, anyone can come in and be part of the experience, regardless of intelligence or social background, as long as you bring your money with you because money is all that Milwaukee is interested in these days.***
While I am not in lock-step with everything he is saying, there is a fair amount of truth to what he says. HD has moved away from motorcycles to the 'image' of motorcycles.
I have to get ready for work, so I'll keep this short. IMHO, the reason for all the copy-cats is that other manufactures saw people waiting a year or more to purchase a $20,000 motorcycle. Why not make something that is similar at half the price and let them have it today?
As you said, not all bikes can do all things. V-twins and their gobs of tourqe (which I love) work well in NHRA were it's needed. As for high-speed twisties, that's another engine. -
-
Re: Another Discussion Starter
Sat, November 14, 2009 - 2:43 PMWell, I think it's a dumb ass comparison, why bother? Unless you're trying to make yourself feel better. You can sit on your beemer and feel superior or what ever you ride--do you? -
-
Re: Another Discussion Starter
Sat, November 14, 2009 - 3:06 PMWho ever wrote that or that interviewee seems awful bitter. He Blames HD for dragging technology in the US. It's not like everyone didn't know HD was not competitive. Maybe the real problem was there was too much good product coming from Japan. I'm just guessing that developing a bike, finding financing, tooling up assembly just did not make sense with 4 Japanese competitors not even mentioning the euro bikes.
The only place Harley shows up is with Buell and Buells are crap, they needed a Rotax to put themselves close. The thing the made me confused was, why the oddball configuration and engine size? That bike was racing 600cc bikes, that's stupid. I just read the artical by Chris Ulrich about riding the1125RR (Rotax) and he said the Buell paddock couldn't change fork springs. I know there are serious tuners and race mechanics here in the States, why couldn't Buell find them?
HD bought Augusta and now they are selling it, for good reason I suppose.
HD is not dragging down an American sportbike, the market and no one has the brains or balls to do it. -
-
Re: Another Discussion Starter
Sun, November 15, 2009 - 4:50 PMHere's a post from the Jockey Journal in a thread about Kenny Roberts. It gets into the ban of 3&4 cylinder bikes for flat track open class leaving it to the HD XR750.
I can have it both ways, enjoy my shovelhead and even though I don't own one at present (I'd get a naked bike likely a Duc) I can enjoy sportbikes too. Here's the post:
I lucked out and ended up at Indy that Saturday night. You could actually see a puff from the back wheel of Roberts' bike on the last turn. Because we were higher in the stands we couldn't clearly see the finish line, we could see the rest of the track though. We thought Roberts got second - which was incredible in itself.
The shame of the "legend" is that it leaves out the fact that there were four other TZs and three or four H2 Kawasakis, a few from Irv Kanemoto, with all of them pitting together in a general area. Only Aksland and Roberts did ok on the TZs and Don Castro ran second (I think) in the Trophy Dash (consolation for non-qualifiers), passing two Harleys on the straights and being repassed on the turns. Castro never quite figured out the line as Roberts did.
The other shame is that the story ignores the story of WHY and HOW for the Champion TZ. This story is told in the January 1976 Cycle World article (have it right here at hand) about and test ride of the Champion TZ750 mile bike. D. Randy Riggs rode Steve Baker's bike and wrote the article. Riggs and Baker (the first World GP champion from the U.S. in the 750 class) felt the ban was premature and not well thought out, that the bike had incredible power, but power to be respected and controlled. It wasn't the uncontrollable bike that the later legend made it out to be... otherwise Roberts probably wouldn't have ridden it again at Indy in 09.
The key points from Schwerma's opinion, were the good dependability and safety record of the TZ in roadracing and that many privateer AMA Grand National circuit riders had them. He saw the potential for a rider to have a reasonably competitive mile bike for the cost of adding a rolling chassis to their stable rather than a whole bike. After all the AMA GN points payout included roadracing, mile, half mile, short track, and TT racing and a privateer needed to get as many points and make a living.
Yamaha ignored the late Doug Schwerma's rerquest for a bike to use, even the offer to buy the bike and do all the work. He obviously eventually got one and built SIX chassis. They went to Roberts, Skip Aksland, Randy Cleek, Steve Baker, and Rick Hocking. He built the bike to use as much of the roadrace gear as possible, with the consideration of the privateer AMA grand national rider at the center of thought. The stock pipes, radiators, temp gage, and electrics came off the roadracer and on to the rolling mile chassis. The bike had been tested on half miles by Hocking, but the engines had never really had any sort of tuning mods for ridability, which could have boded well. Kind of a shame.
That ban took out EVERY multi-cylinder engine with 3 or more cylinders. It took out the H2 Kawasaki, the Suzuki GT750 (Ronnie Rall ran one), the Triumph/BSA triple, and any future 3/4 cylinders from ALL competition. Even now there is a bit of its effects on racing. You poor flat track enthusiasts out there don't ever get to hear the wonderous sound of the Tridents or any of the two strokes even on the Vintage circuit. The AHRMA didn't allow any 3/4 cylinder engines either. The closest I've heard was Rick Hocking on the TD2 at Ashland several years back - incredible. The sounds of Indy that night signaled the end of an era of development of new sources of power, ushering in the XR750 domination for the next 35 plus years. (Of course there was the RS750, but the AMA screwed it up adequately to quash it too. Heaven forbid the breed be improved.) The excitement was greatly diminished for me.
I guess you can tell I really liked what I saw that night and not so much the single brand racing that resulted from the ruling. Because Roberts was such a competitor, he ran the bike to the limits to win at almost all costs. Also because of that and his comments another dozen or so riders were denied the ability to have a reasonable ride in their pursuit of the AMA GN title after the ban. The fact that no one was injured or killed in the testing and racing of the TZ750s or the H2s kind of speaks volumes about the validity of the claims of those opponents along with the skills and talents of the racers who rode them. You'd have thought these bikes were going to be put in the hands of some squid stunter the way it sounded.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by klx678 : Today at 07:14 AM. -
-
Re: Another Discussion Starter
Mon, November 16, 2009 - 8:04 PMBruce;
If you have such a sever case of bitter Harley envy why are you hunting on the "Harley Davidson" Tribe? -
-
Re: Another Discussion Starter
Mon, November 16, 2009 - 8:34 PMBecause he likes to fuck with us and feel superior. What else? -
-
Re: Another Discussion Starter
Tue, November 17, 2009 - 4:45 AMAttention:
A Buell powered bike just won the NHRA Drag Racing Pro-stock Division Championship.
Hector Arana narrowly beat Eddy Karwiec, last years champion, by just two points.
Andrew Hines came in third. Krawiec and Hines are the Vance and Hines Harley Davidson Screaming Eagle Team and ride Harley Davidson V-Rod based motorcycles. Hines was the NHRA Pro-stock Motorcycle Drag Racing Champion the previous three years. Harley Davidson powered motorcycles have dominated the NHRA class over the formerly successful Suzuki powered bikes since returning to the class five year ago.
-
-
This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Another Discussion Starter
Tue, November 17, 2009 - 8:31 AMI just saw a picture on Chopcult on a 40yard trash box full of Buells at HD or Buell, cleaning up. The Chopcult guys were upset and wondering why that faggot Willie G didn't sell that stuff off! Some people! Total wasfulness.
-
-
Re: Another Discussion Starter
Sat, November 21, 2009 - 5:34 PMFor the record, I own a '87 FXR(P)* and a '96 KZ1000(P)*.
Do I feel superior to you? No.
As for fucking with you? Sure.
That was part of the guy's rant/site. That anyone that dares throw stones at Harley-Davidson will face a rabid mob. I was hoping this thread would of discussed more about if HD has moved away from the bikes and into the marketing of all things Harley. Which side of your local dealer has the bigger footprint; the bikes or the T-shirts? What role do you think Eric Buell will play in the company now? Why isn't the Revolution engine built into a bagger? If you could pull the levers at HD, what are some of the changes would you make?
* Police bikes with all the fairings removed.
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Re: Another Discussion Starter
Sat, November 21, 2009 - 1:55 AMThe answer to most of this crap: Because everybody has a need to be better than whoever they come across, or justify their purchase. Insecurity - self esteem issues, sound like you?
Even in the Harley culture or the Jap sportbike culture or the Euro bikes there is competition and trash talking among themselves. Yes some buy an image or culture but that is true with the sports bikes as well, peer pressure, fitting in ect, all play a part in their choice...oh yea lest not forget "bragging rights", like owning a bike they'll never get the full potential out of because they can not handle the damn thing but they can brag about HP . Why the hell does everybody even care who rides what or why? Harleys have their charm, as far as a street cruiser goes, what;s a better choice? A wanna be Jap copy? Give it a rest all you high and mighty bikers, hell if you enjoyed YOUR fast/handling ride so much why spend the time creating a site (the size of a novel) trashing a bike you do not and have never owned?
BTW, if you ain't on an MV Agusta, Ducati or Aprilla ect., you ain't sheet, Suzuki, Yamaha, or Honda are junk by comparison, those people look down on your wanna-be's like you trash Harley. The Harley guys love their shit without all that BS - who's happy? -
-
Re: Another Discussion Starter
Sat, November 21, 2009 - 12:20 PMMe with my two Harleys. The only thing better would be being able to affor to buy an FXR, but I have to finish paying for the 2008 Ultra first.
-